Plec - Which type grows the smallest? (or stays the smallest

Discuss those captivating bottom dwelling critters...

Plec - Which type grows the smallest? (or stays the smallest

Postby spongebobmax » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:02 pm

??

Thank you
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Postby Apistogramma » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:07 pm

Hiya,

What size tank do you have? Has it been cycled, what else is it stocked with?

A lot of the smallest species are hard to get hold of, hard to acclimatise and care for and can be very expensive.

I have a golden nugget pleco which is about 3" presently I expect to grow to between 4-5" over the next few years.

A lot of people get Ancistrus sp which is commonly called the Bristlenose Plec and grows to around 6".

Check out the fish index for more: http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/catfish.htm
Becky

*Aimlessly drives around in the steam roller with Karena's now fairly blunt scissors...and Lisa's hedge trimmer*

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Postby spongebobmax » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:11 pm

i have 71l tank

2 angels
2 black widow tetra
2 platys
1 cory, peppered

Its been going for a few weeks, i didnt really cycle it, changed tanks from a smaller one, put water from old tank in new tank which should have sorted it out, lfs did water test and said all was ok.

have been advised by people here to wait before i get 2 blue rams so am waiting but wondered about plecs, they look so impressive and would like one in the tank, i have a nice cave for him to have but want to know size wise and also how long to wait or whether the tank is too small.
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Postby Apistogramma » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:00 pm

Hiya,

I've seen your posts on your problems with your tank and obviously you need to give it plenty of time before you think about adding any more fish.
Your tank must be fairly small at 71l's, I'm guessing in the 18"/12"/12" type range?

That is far too small for the angels. While it may seem harsh to say it you cannot keep them in that tank and if you try to you will staunt their growth, shorten their lifespan and kill them. They won't be able to swim properly in a tank that small anyway. I strongly advise you either take them back and swap them (they will probably start to bully your livebearers anyway) OR think about getting yet another tank in the near future, at least 18" in depth.

If you really want to keep your tank and you really like the Rams you'll need to get rid of the angels anyway. Please, please don't put the Rams in with the angels. They'll almost certainly fight and you'll lose the Rams. They are awesome, awesome fish and will entertain and delight you and I highly recommend them!! However you will need to keep your tank water very clean as they are easily stressed and fall ill (I keep my nitrates under 10ppm).

BEFORE you even think about getting Rams you also need to attend to your little Cory - they should be kept in groups! I suggest you either take him back and get a Bristlenose plec OR you buy four more corys and don't get a plec. I don't think there's really enough bottom space for both species in your tank.

I think you need to aim firstly for a very clean tank, ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrates under 10ppm. (It's not that hard to keep a small tank clean, just change a bucket a day or three buckets twice a week...it'll take ten minutes max and once you get into a routine you'll enjoy it!)

If I was you I would be aiming for a stocking list of either:

2 black widow tetras
2 platys
5 corys, peppered
2 Rams

OR:
2 black widow tetras
2 platys
1 Bristlenose plec
2 Rams

I would not advise adding any more stock if you get the Rams. Keep an eye on your platys, one may bully the other - I can't speak for the black widows as I've never kept them.

If this sounds like just a few fish to you just think on this: keeping fewer fish in your tank will mean they are very healthy and will, certainly in the Rams case, be incredibly active. I have a 250l tank and which fish do I see most of...my breeding pair of Rams! If I could only keep one pair of fish...I would chose them! :D

Another thing to think about is the tank decor. Add live plants! Go for hardy ones that don't need lots of light, Java is awesome! There are some others that will also thrive. Add bogwood, a little slate cave and maybe a flowerpot and hey-presto! A natural set up like that will look awesome and you'll be able to watch the fish interact as they would naturally.
A school of corys will be rough-and-tumbling around the bottom of the tank and the Rams will go all over exploring and entertaining you!
The plec on the other hand would be a lot more placid and I don't think he would feel too safe in such a small tank - ask Chaoz what happened when he moved his 14" common plec from a 4 to 6' tank! (The result is amazing!)

The temptation with any tank, especially when you start, is to fill it with as many species as possible because you WANT to look after and see them all...but with a little tank less is more. The fish will be more active and feel safer as a result, and adding lots of 'toys' in the form of natural decor will make you feel like you're looking into a span shot of a river.

One last word of advice: ADD A DARK BACKGROUND - it encloses the tank and makes the fish feel less exposed plus it totally changes the viewing perspective on the tank. It's well worth the couple of £'s it'll cost you!

Hope all this helps and inspires you!! :D
Becky

*Aimlessly drives around in the steam roller with Karena's now fairly blunt scissors...and Lisa's hedge trimmer*

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Postby spongebobmax » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:39 pm

Have decided to take the angels back on Saturday.

Get 3 more Corys ( 1 peppered and 2 albino)

Wait another month and get 2 small blue rams.

Now all fish in the tank will not grow very big and therefore have more room to move around so I am thinking about looking at smaller colourful fish.

Any idea or would what I would have be sufficient.

Angels are beautiful but I do value your comments and feel you are only telling me for the best of the fish.

So I WILL have

2 platys
4 corys
2 Blur rams (not bolivian)
2 black widow tetra (only small)


Any chance of getting dalmation mollies aswell??

Would they be ok?
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Postby chaoz » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm

haha bex you just love my plec!!!
im seriously gunna have to hide him from you or you will be stealing him!!!!
Unofficial TTT fish rehomer :)

im just a clown loach addict!!!

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Postby Apistogramma » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:19 pm

I've told you Chaoz, he won't sit still in the car so there's no way I'm even going to try - I might lose my license!

I think you've made a good choice Spongebobmax and you're going to love your tank! Dalmatian Mollies like to live in brackish (slightly salty) water (kinda like a pickled onion I guess) and don't do so well in fresh water.
I think with ten fish in your tank you'll be pretty much fully stocked. Livebearers are messy fish so I probably wouldn't add any more.

Here is my breeding pair of Blue rams:
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Here is the male Blue with my male Gold:
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Postby spongebobmax » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:48 pm

i have listened to everyone but still think after the rams i want another fish.

nothing but something thats adds movement.

basically i will have

4 corys 2 pepper and 2 albino
2 rams
2 black widow tetra
2 platys

but want something small (will small neons be ok? )

i know all fish i have stay small apart from rams which grow a bit bigger.
i think about 6cm from research.

Let me know..

Sad that the angels will be going back on saturday but knowing that they will be happier makes me feel better.

the marbled one is getting bigger.

also can people let me know with their experience that when fish come to front of tank do they scurry away if u move towards the tank etc?

or with time do they learn to allow u near(or follow ur finger across glass etc?)

Max
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Postby spongebobmax » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:57 pm

??
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Postby Donnaw33 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:58 pm

My guppies follow you and so do my sword tails in the other tank at the front of the glass and so do my plecs in the big living room tank.

We got a couple of somesort of catfish the other week and we only ever see them at night time when the moonlight is on. And even then it is only quick glances we get of them.


Donna x
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Postby Apistogramma » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:52 pm

All of yours will probably settle given time, especially once you have mainly fish of the same size as you shouldn't have any bullying going on.

I think 10 fish in a 70l tank may max. it out but you probably could get a shoal of neons later. If you take your time and stock it slowly keeping an eye on your nitrate levels and your fishes health you will get a 'feel' as to whether or not you can put any more in!

Your Rams will really brighten up the tank, they are very active and pretty to watch. :D Let us know what's happening and when and we can help and advise. All the best!!
Becky

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